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Little tractor update
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purplepickup
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PostPosted: Thu, Jul 09 2015, 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting project Tom. I imagine building a competitive tractor has it's own unique challenges aside from the technical engine/drivetrain knowledge. Good job so far. Keep the updates coming

Beck wrote:
WZ JUNK wrote:
You are getting a lot more done than I am this summer. I hardly get home long enough to mow the yard.

John

Every time it quits raining here I have to mow. It needs it now.

When the tractor is done you should build a huge mower deck and take care of the mowing with just a few passes. Wink

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PostPosted: Thu, Jul 09 2015, 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Drive shaft today Reply with quote

Beck wrote:
I'm going to work on the drive shaft today. As you can see in the photos it will be SHORT, 5 1/4" center to center of the universal joints.

Explorers have drive shafts that have a splined slip section in them. One of the drive shaft yolks has the female part of the spline built in. I am chucking the splined section in the lathe. From the U-joint end am boring a 1.5" hole into it. This will then be cut off at a factory shoulder, about 1.5 inches deep. A 350 turbo transmission output yolk is 1.5" in diameter where it enters the transmission. I am taking one of these, cutting it to length, and inserting it into the machined Explorer part and welding them together at the right length. This will give me a small diameter, heavy wall, short shaft with a Ford joint on one end and a Chevy joint on the other.


I just did the same thing for a trans I am building. I machined down a yoke for a 31 Chevy closed drive shaft to 1.4", and bored out a turbo 350 yoke to a .001 interference fit. I heated the yoke, shilled the spline, and pushed them together with a press. I am having a buddy weld it together, he is better with TIG that I am, and has the equipment to heat treat it after welding.

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PostPosted: Sat, Jul 11 2015, 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Call Kaase for recommendation on a cyl head.
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PostPosted: Sun, Jul 12 2015, 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

these are JUST THOUGHTS..

since its an 8.8 rear end.. are you going to have the stock 8 bolt flat flange yoke on it.. ?? if so.. that gives you 4 mounting points for a custom water jet cut disc brake rotor and perhaps a way to mount a single caliper.. so you can stop the beast

have you another set of rotors that you might leave a little of the rotor material on it to strengthen the brake drum .. or are you going to machine a strong steel band you heat up and slip over the cast iron parking brake drum area.. to give it more resistance to expansion.. or grab some steel stock and machine your own brake drum out of some big bar stock sections.

i like what you are doing..

do you have any brake or friction materials or clutch shops in your area.. where you could take a new pair of explorer parking brake shoes in and have some velvet touch semi metallic linings installed. so they might stand up to the heat of steering brakes. again.. forward thinking..

i am also thinking that you might be taking spares with you to any race. drums, shoes, spring kits.

when looking at your frame rails.. i have always wondered.. if one could stiffen them up between the engine mount brackets and the close to the rear end with some angle welded to the inside face.. that might reduce twisting in my twisted brain. []> <[] like that. perhaps it would make it too stiff.. what fun would it be if the left front wheel was not a foot higher off the ground just from frame torsion..

again these are JUST THOUGHTS..
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PostPosted: Sun, Jul 12 2015, 7:46 pm    Post subject: Kaase Reply with quote

unklian wrote:
Call Kaase for recommendation on a cyl head.

Word around is that Kaase built some of these Mercruiser motors to experiment with his then under construction cylinder heads. With these motors he only had to make one head to test with.

I called Kaase's shop. Some very uninterested woman answered, who said NO they had never done any and didn't seem interested in letting me talk to anyone else. I would love to talk to someone there who would make an honest recommendation.
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PostPosted: Sun, Jul 12 2015, 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayne petty wrote:

since its an 8.8 rear end.. are you going to have the stock 8 bolt flat flange yoke on it.. ?? if so.. that gives you 4 mounting points for a custom water jet cut disc brake rotor and perhaps a way to mount a single caliper.. so you can stop the beast

Yes I am using the 8 bolt flange yolk. Stopping one of these is VERY easy. Just let off the gas, since your are pulling a weight sled it stops right NOW!

I never considered letting a band around the drum for strength. I should have done that. I do have another set of rotors I can cut.

I will not be taking any spares along. Normally I will only get to make one pull a night. On the rarity that I make a 2nd I wouldn't have time to make any repairs.

Frame flex is a good thing in these. I don't want to make it too stiff. There is a cross member at the very front, at the transmission mount, in front of the axle, and at the very rear. The floorboards are welded to the transmission and axle cross members and to the side rails of the frame. That boxes that section pretty well.
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PostPosted: Sun, Jul 12 2015, 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Kaase Reply with quote

Beck wrote:
unklian wrote:
Call Kaase for recommendation on a cyl head.

Word around is that Kaase built some of these Mercruiser motors to experiment with his then under construction cylinder heads. With these motors he only had to make one head to test with.

I called Kaase's shop. Some very uninterested woman answered, who said NO they had never done any and didn't seem interested in letting me talk to anyone else. I would love to talk to someone there who would make an honest recommendation.


hmm.. i have been emailing back and forth a little bit with them over an exhaust improvement for their engine masters contest engine.. that might translate into more race and street car header power..

you might find some interesting info in the picture with the three heads ..

http://rebuilt.net/Inboard_Marine_Engines.htm

seems there were significant differences in the port design. a small port 3.0 newer head and an earlier large port 3.0 head..

i don't know enough about these motors to give you a good answer.. i always thought there was a pair of 2.5 cylinder heads.. one with intake and exhaust on both on one side and then there was a cross flow version.. with the intake on one side and the exhaust on the other..

just curious.. which carb are you going to run on it.. were you aware of my ranting on tuning the Idle feed restrictor (aka idle jet) to get rid of the off idle flat spots.. and keep the air fuel ratio within reason from idle till the mains totally take over above 2300 to 2500 rpms.. again depending on the size of the carb and displacement.
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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 13 2015, 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: Kaase Reply with quote

wayne petty wrote:
you might find some interesting info in the picture with the three heads ..

just curious.. which carb are you going to run on it.. were you aware of my ranting on tuning the Idle feed restrictor (aka idle jet) to get rid of the off idle flat spots.. and keep the air fuel ratio within reason from idle till the mains totally take over above 2300 to 2500 rpms.. again depending on the size of the carb and displacement.


Wayne,
The 3.0 and 2.5 are completey different than my 3.7. On your link my engine is the very bottom one in the 4 cylinder section. It is in a separate bold border because it is unique. My top end is 100% BBF. Trick Flow's A460 head changes the exhaust port configuration to BBC. I can't buy turbo headers for a BBF, but I can for the BBC exhaust port. I am thinking the A460 320cc port size was too big for my motor.

I want to go directly to fuel injection, but may try to get the little bugger running with a factory intake and factory Quadrajet. My intake/carb are 2 bbl. I knew were there was a 4bbl intake, but have not found a carb. The Quadrajet was used on the higher hp versions of this motor. They are special units. They have limiters on butterfly openings. The jets are smaller. I understand that one gasket is even special. I believe they were rated at 450 cfm. Since I am planning on methanol for fuel, I don't know if this carb could even be modified to use.

I expect anyone that knows anything about the Mercruiser at the Kaase shop would have to have been there quite a while. I'm sure they have not built one in several years. If you are speaking with someone like that there, and have a chance, ask about the Mercruiser.
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PostPosted: Mon, Jul 13 2015, 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry . i missed out that point about it being a 3.7 instead of a 3.0..

are you running an aluminum head or cast iron.. i saw a E3 460 head and it had exhaust ports that looked just like the edelbrock exhaust ports.. far better than the D3 heads.. no dog leg at all.. i did not get a chance to loo at the intake ports.. i was looking for D3 heads and went in the back of the core supplier to find what i needed and while i was back there somebody bought those before i could get back to the front..

FYI.. the 224 cid quadrajet carbs are carb number


17081299 MCM 488 w/224 3.7L R-4 4ME

and

17083522 MCM 180, 190 w/224 3.7L R-4 4MV

just to make your life easier.

it is a significant amount of work to convert any quadrajet to ethanol..or methanol.. as the fuel flow rates and jetting need to be increased..

probably not impossible for using on a smaller motor..

you will probably want to scrounge carb jetting out of big caddys to start with.. 425s, 472, 500 motors.. various heights of the secondary metering rod holder.. you may want 455 and 454 carb jetting also..

you may find the edelbrock primary piston springs also work on the quadrajet.. walker products also sells them.

most quadrajets have some epoxy sealing the bottom of the main well plugs. that could create an issue with melting of the epoxy..
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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 14 2015, 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wayne petty wrote:

are you running an aluminum head or cast iron.. i saw a E3 460 head and it had exhaust ports that looked just like the edelbrock exhaust ports.. far better than the D3 heads..

it is a significant amount of work to convert any quadrajet to ethanol..or methanol.. as the fuel flow rates and jetting need to be increased..


I plan to run one of the following 3 aftermarket aluminum heads. 1) Trick Flow A460 2) Kaase P51 3) Ford Super Cobra Jet
My problem is deciding on the correct port sizing. These were listed in largest to smaller (still big). I need to look at the flow and velocity using a low lift cam since blanks are not available for this engine.

I don't have the knowledge to modify a carb for alcohol. I would surely screw it up.
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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 14 2015, 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might have to modify the carb to survive pulling as well. The bouncing would play havoc on float level as well as splash out of bowl vents. I have seen float bowls filled with open cell foam to stop fuel slosh with a return from bowl to tank to maintain fuel level but that was for circle track.
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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 14 2015, 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Drive shaft today Reply with quote

enjenjo wrote:
Beck wrote:
I'm going to work on the drive shaft today. As you can see in the photos it will be SHORT, 5 1/4" center to center of the universal joints.

Explorers have drive shafts that have a splined slip section in them. One of the drive shaft yolks has the female part of the spline built in. I am chucking the splined section in the lathe. From the U-joint end am boring a 1.5" hole into it. This will then be cut off at a factory shoulder, about 1.5 inches deep. A 350 turbo transmission output yolk is 1.5" in diameter where it enters the transmission. I am taking one of these, cutting it to length, and inserting it into the machined Explorer part and welding them together at the right length. This will give me a small diameter, heavy wall, short shaft with a Ford joint on one end and a Chevy joint on the other.


I just did the same thing for a trans I am building. I machined down a yoke for a 31 Chevy closed drive shaft to 1.4", and bored out a turbo 350 yoke to a .001 interference fit. I heated the yoke, chilled the spline, and pushed them together with a press. I am having a buddy weld it together, he is better with TIG that I am, and has the equipment to heat treat it after welding.


I have my yoke done. It came out nice.



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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 14 2015, 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank, that's the way it ought to be. The temptation to say"the yokes on you" is very strong. Smile What do people do without a shop full of equipment????
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PostPosted: Tue, Jul 14 2015, 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kb426 wrote:
Frank, that's the way it ought to be. The temptation to say"the yokes on you" is very strong. Smile
Quote:
What do people do without a shop full of equipment????



Simple ....We contact Frank on a good day & say PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE... Laughing Idea Cool

Bob .... Wink

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PostPosted: Wed, Jul 15 2015, 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UGLY OLDS wrote:

Simple ....We contact Frank on a good day & say PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE... Laughing Idea Cool

Bob .... Wink


I wish I lived closer to Frank. This project would be done already.

If you look in the background of Franks photo you will find important stuff (trans gears) that I don't know how to put together.

PLEEEEEEEEEASE Frank ??
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PostPosted: Wed, Jul 15 2015, 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Kaase Reply with quote

Beck wrote:
unklian wrote:
Call Kaase for recommendation on a cyl head.

Word around is that Kaase built some of these Mercruiser motors to experiment with his then under construction cylinder heads. With these motors he only had to make one head to test with.

I called Kaase's shop. Some very uninterested woman answered, who said NO they had never done any and didn't seem interested in letting me talk to anyone else. I would love to talk to someone there who would make an honest recommendation.



Jon Kaase himself posts on the Speedtalk.com engine forums.
Maybe try him there.

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