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fuel troubles
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idrivejunk
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PostPosted: Thu, Nov 06 2014, 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what that is supposed to be, but I can't imagine where it would be used in a pressurized EFI system. I can't see it going on the pickup end either, thats just not enough surface area to flow easily. As a vent cap, I believe that would work fine. I'm certainly no expert on fuel systems though.
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kb426
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PostPosted: Thu, Nov 06 2014, 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a Tanks roll over vent valve. I have mine on the 32 mounted to the frame.
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416Ford
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PostPosted: Thu, Dec 11 2014, 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it's not a fuel issue....
The car is back together and I took it for a cold weather drive tonight. I can now assume that something in the distributor is cutting out. She runs good in the garage but I take it out for a drive and get it going and she shuts down/stops firing. Car only dies once in awhile. Tach is showing rpm charging system seems to say steady.
I am still at a loss. GM HEI style distributor. I will start replacing stuff in that again but I wish I knew what part to start with.

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rooster
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PostPosted: Thu, Dec 11 2014, 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

416Ford wrote:
Well it's not a fuel issue....
The car is back together and I took it for a cold weather drive tonight. I can now assume that something in the distributor is cutting out. She runs good in the garage but I take it out for a drive and get it going and she shuts down/stops firing. Car only dies once in awhile. Tach is showing rpm charging system seems to say steady.
I am still at a loss. GM HEI style distributor. I will start replacing stuff in that again but I wish I knew what part to start with.


What controls the coil? computer or icm module

Coil in the cap?

Vacume advance?

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Last edited by rooster on Thu, Dec 11 2014, 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wayne petty
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PostPosted: Thu, Dec 11 2014, 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

416Ford wrote:
Well it's not a fuel issue....
The car is back together and I took it for a cold weather drive tonight. I can now assume that something in the distributor is cutting out. She runs good in the garage but I take it out for a drive and get it going and she shuts down/stops firing. Car only dies once in awhile. Tach is showing rpm charging system seems to say steady.
I am still at a loss. GM HEI style distributor. I will start replacing stuff in that again but I wish I knew what part to start with.



http://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-pump-and-vacuum-tester-93547.html
i don't know if you can get 3/16 or 1/4" fuel hose up there and create a brass tee to allow you to tee into the line at the pump.. to monitor the suction side of the pump http://www.autozone.com/plumbing-hosing/rubber-hose/armor-mark-1-4-in-s ae-j30r7-fuel-and-emission-hose-sold-by-the-foot/4954_0_0/
you will then also want to monitor the pressure side of the fuel pump..
this is only a test...

lets see if it is the ignition system.. got a timing light.. can you hook it up so you can get the wire out from under the hood and stick the timing light under a wiper arm.. trigger taped in the on position.. see if the timing light stops flashing before the engine stops turning..

i don't recall.. but i imagine that you have an HEI coil in the cap distributor...

can you monitor the power wire to the distributor by hooking up a test light to it.. slowly turn the key to the RUN position.. with an HEI.. you need to see a BRIGHT LIGHT.. crank the engine.. you should still have almost as bright a light... return the key to the RUN position.. you should still have a bright light.. in all reality you should NOT have any drop outs..

you can.. use a scotch tap and add a test circuit without much damage to the wiring.. by extending to a digital volt meter stashed on the dash board..

where are your ground wires located?? got a digital volt meter..

engine running.. headlights on.. digital meter set to 20 volts DC..

test 1. Negative battery post to the positive battery post.. 14.1 to 14.8 volts DC is expected..

test 2. Negative battery post to the Engine block.. 0.04 volts DC max..

test 3. Negative battery post to the body/firewall.. 0.02 volts DC max..

test 4. Engine block to the firewall/body.. 0.02 volts DC max..

a strange test.. negative battery post.. to the distributor housing.. what.. i just have a hunch... the electronics in the distributor ground thru the housing.. if you have painted your intake.. painted the hold down bracket.. and have a distributor mounting gasket.. the only ground connection is down inside the block..where the cam gear and housing touch.. not a great ground connection..

would you like some HEI distributor tests???

have you swapped the ignition coil for a new one??? coils can fail.. you can use a spark gap tester to verify the output...

under the corner of the in cap coil is a folded metal strap.. it is held down by the corner of the coil.. make sure that corner of the laminations is clean ..not covered in paint.. the other end goes to the center wire of the three going down into the distributor base... that is the coil spark return path..

what... the high voltage spark leaves the HEI Coil .. down thru the cap to the rotor.. jumps the gap at the end of the rotor.. to the cap terminals.. the spark plug wires.. jumps the gap at the spark plugs and into the heads.. it will go to the intake thru the distributor hold down clamp to the distributor body.. the 3 wire and condenser hold down screw that actually connects the center wire of the 3 up to the cap terminals.. this allows the coil high voltage to make a complete circuit.. only issue.. the current flow actually goes the other way..
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enjenjo
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PostPosted: Thu, Dec 11 2014, 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

416Ford wrote:
Well it's not a fuel issue....
The car is back together and I took it for a cold weather drive tonight. I can now assume that something in the distributor is cutting out. She runs good in the garage but I take it out for a drive and get it going and she shuts down/stops firing. Car only dies once in awhile. Tach is showing rpm charging system seems to say steady.
I am still at a loss. GM HEI style distributor. I will start replacing stuff in that again but I wish I knew what part to start with.


When it dies, does it start right back up, or not?

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416Ford
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PostPosted: Fri, Dec 12 2014, 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usually starts right back up.

Wayne, battery is in the trunk, 1" wide copper ground from the frame to the block and to the body. You can see it at the starter in the picture.

I have not checked the regular yet. Just like everything else, it work fine in the garage with hood up.

I have a slightly used coil, cap, and rotor in the garage.

When it does stumble/die it take a second or two or more for it to run again. Almost like a complete kill of the engine but then goes again.

Regulator is mounted on the right front of the head. Just replaced at the rubber fuel line, all the fuel lines from the stock pump mounted on the block to the regulator.


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416Ford
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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 19 2015, 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I hope I found it. The roads are snow and salt covered so I put the car up on stands and hooked up a timing light and started it up. Vickie sat in the car and ran it at high rpms for awhile while I watched the fuel pressure and the time light.
After about 40 seconds the fuel pressure started to jump around then dropped all the way to zero. I let the rpms drop down and shut it off, started right back up with 5 LB of pressure.
Installed another fuel pump and the pressure stays right at 4 to 5. Crossing the fingers and closing the hood for awhile.
Back to the Torino.

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UGLY OLDS
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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 19 2015, 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Vickie sat in the car and ran it at high rpms for awhile while I watched the fuel pressure and the time light.



See ...All you needed was Vickie's help Exclamation Laughing Laughing

Bob...... Wink

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chimp koose
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PostPosted: Mon, Jan 19 2015, 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar problem years ago with a vehicle that would just die for no reason and usually start right back up.The culprit was a piece of PAPER floating around in the tank that would occasionally plug off the fuel line in the tank.Shut it off and the suction stops , paper floats away only to return later with no really diagnoseable reason why , just random stalling. Get a camera in the tank and have a good look , a floater the size of a postage stamp would be all it takes to cause your random stalling.
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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 20 2015, 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimp koose wrote:
I had a similar problem years ago with a vehicle that would just die for no reason and usually start right back up.The culprit was a piece of PAPER floating around in the tank that would occasionally plug off the fuel line in the tank.Shut it off and the suction stops , paper floats away only to return later with no really diagnoseable reason why , just random stalling. Get a camera in the tank and have a good look , a floater the size of a postage stamp would be all it takes to cause your random stalling.


I wish it was that easy Chimp, I pulled the tank, re-did fuel lines, replaced filters, sent carb in for rebuild, installed new coil, new module and new cap.
Fuel pump was new last year so I left that alone......
Next time I have an issue I may rethink my diagnostic method. Sad

Thanks Bob, when she was done she bragged on FB about having to help me in the garage.

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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 20 2015, 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

416Ford wrote:
chimp koose wrote:
I had a similar problem years ago with a vehicle that would just die for no reason and usually start right back up.The culprit was a piece of PAPER floating around in the tank that would occasionally plug off the fuel line in the tank.Shut it off and the suction stops , paper floats away only to return later with no really diagnoseable reason why , just random stalling. Get a camera in the tank and have a good look , a floater the size of a postage stamp would be all it takes to cause your random stalling.


I wish it was that easy Chimp, I pulled the tank, re-did fuel lines, replaced filters, sent carb in for rebuild, installed new coil, new module and new cap.
Fuel pump was new last year so I left that alone......
Next time I have an issue I may rethink my diagnostic method. Sad

Thanks Bob, when she was done she bragged on FB about having to help me in the garage.



A amp meter would have been a good choise, as the pump starts to labor the amps go up,following that you would have seen the fuel pressure droping until eng die's. Harbor Freight has a small amp meter that plugs in to fuse box.

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PostPosted: Tue, Jan 20 2015, 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is a cam lobe fuel pump. I keep an eye on all the gauges I could see while driving it. Fuel pressure gauge was the one I could not see from inside the car and it only acted up at high speeds or after driving a bit.
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 21 2015, 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimp koose wrote:
I had a similar problem years ago with a vehicle that would just die for no reason and usually start right back up.The culprit was a piece of PAPER floating around in the tank that would occasionally plug off the fuel line in the tank.Shut it off and the suction stops , paper floats away only to return later with no really diagnoseable reason why , just random stalling. Get a camera in the tank and have a good look , a floater the size of a postage stamp would be all it takes to cause your random stalling.
I had a friend who had this same thing happen on a '48 Chevy panel truck. The culprit was a 5 cent size piece of foil seal from the top of a fuel additive bottle that was in the tank!
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PostPosted: Thu, Jan 22 2015, 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a fuel problem once, during construction of an old jeep I was doing I stuffed that blue paper towel in the neck to keep the dirt out etc. It was about a year after I had it on the road it would sputter and die when I hit bumps etc, and yes, you guessed it, a nice big square of the blue towel floating around inside the tank, it would plug things up, not all the time just every now and then,,,,,, thing is it never even disintegrated or anything actually the towel was even usable after it had dried after a year soaking in gasoline........ Embarassed I hate those problems Evil or Very Mad
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416Ford
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PostPosted: Wed, Jan 28 2015, 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While the storms missed us and went south I took the car out for a test drive.
Sunny and 26 degrees, and the same problem as before...... Evil or Very Mad
Back to the testing stuff.

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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 08 2015, 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one mentioned to me to check the CHECK VALVE.

I didn't even know it was there.

I think I am good to go now....It seems to run without any hesitation now.








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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 08 2015, 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was this on the vent side? Anyway, congratulations!
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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 08 2015, 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No it is on the fuel side
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PostPosted: Sun, Feb 08 2015, 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a new one on me. Is the purpose of that to facilitate the fuel pump maintaining prime when it first starts? I thought all mechanical pumps had a flap valve that didn't allow drain back.
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